ACUMA ONpoint
ACUMA ONpoint
From Policy to People: How Credit Unions Can Rebuild Trust in Housing
Housing isn’t just math on a screen, it’s a story about stability, memory, and the people who fight to keep a roof overhead. We sit down with Julian Joseph, former FHA leader and founder of JYJ Consulting, to unpack what the “human side of housing” really means when rates are sticky, costs are rising, and trust is fragile. Julian takes us back to her time in foreclosure counseling, ground zero during the housing crisis, where desperate families taught her the North Star that still guides her work: every policy decision touches generations.
From there, we get practical. We talk about the AMI traps that exclude households who look “fine on paper” but are living paycheck to paycheck, and why empathy must be an operating system, not a slogan. Julian lays out a playbook for credit unions to lead: get creative with down payment assistance (split funds across points, closing costs, and principal to maximize life-of-loan affordability), layer support with HFAs and employer contributions, and bring real member stories to policymakers so rules track with reality. We also examine a cultural shift that turns originators into trusted advisors, coaching members to restructure debt, delay a close, or pursue a different path when that’s the right move. That honesty fuels referrals, lowers default risk, and rebuilds confidence in a market still shadowed by 2008.
Trust sits at the center of this conversation, and credit unions hold a unique advantage: multi-generational relationships and community roots. Use them on purpose. Host family days, financial wellness nights, and open-door hours where members can share what “affordable” really feels like in their ZIP code. Then carry those insights upstream. We close with a reminder that kindness isn’t soft; it’s how coalitions form and change happens.
If this resonates, share it with your team, subscribe for more human-first mortgage conversations, and leave a review telling us how you’re building trust and affordability in your community.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Acuma, its board of directors, its management staff, or its members. The podcast discussion presented is conversational in nature and for general information only.
SPEAKER_03:This is ACMA's OnPoy Podcast. On today's episode, we'll dive into the human side of housing and homeownership. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome to ACMA's OnPoy Podcast, a series of folksmen sharing the stories of people who are making a positive impact in the credit union mortgage industry. I'm your host, Peter Benjamin. Today I am joined by Julian Joseph, founder and principal of JYJ Consulting LLC. Julian. Hey. What is going on?
SPEAKER_01:Listen, you know what? This is another day in the housing finance industry, you know, just letting the grass grow under our feet. Nothing to talk about here.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. But letting the grass grow under our feet. I love that. Now, it Julian, like I said, I we gotta, I'm actually, I hate to say actually, because actually always has negative connotations. But ever since you propose this topic, you know, the human side of housing, I couldn't be more excited to have this conversation with you today. You know, really, because it we we can take this in many different ways, right? And we often talk about it, but you know, it's always impacting. We never really dive into it. Uh, and so I'm really looking forward to diving into that idea of you know, the human side of housing and home ownership, you know, really what motivates us, you know, what motivates you, you know, the challenges and opportunities in the space, and why it matters so deeply. Because I think that last part, you know, why it matters, you know, we often say it, we put families in homes. But but let's let's let's investigate that. Let's let's really jump go into that a bit more. Excited for this conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_03:But before we get to it, as always, gotta bring Justin to the conversation to give us the latest and greatest happening over at because the Hawk. What's going on?
SPEAKER_04:What is the latest and greatest happening over at well over here at Acma, we are coming back for manual, so we're all sort of in recovery mode, but we're rocking and rolling. We're still asleep. What is sleep again? I don't know. That thing that escapes all of us. Yeah, that's true. Um well, uh just because all of our in-person events have finished for the year, I know there's some sad violin music playing somewhere. That doesn't mean that we are out of the weeds of events with Acuma. Uh, we actually, and I hate that word as well, but we do have an event coming up tomorrow. It is our uh marketing network meeting. So if you haven't registered and you're looking to learn some new marketing tips and tricks, come join me and some of the co-chairs uh as we have our court our Q4 meeting. Um then next week we'll have our servicing network meeting. So again, if you're in the servicing space or just want to learn more about mortgages and servicing, then that's the place for you to be. Um other than that, we have our inside tracks going on all year round and our favorite on-point podcast.
SPEAKER_03:And I would be you know remiss if I if I didn't say that you know, outside of the events, outside of everything that we're working on, uh I feel as though we we should probably mention you know the the two open board positions, right? Oh, absolutely. Or three, three, three. It's three, three.
SPEAKER_04:Oh three, and that was announced at annual um at the end of the conference, actually. So that's right.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. So again, there's that word if you're listening and and you're part of the credit union movement. Um, we currently have three board positions open, so be on the lookout for more to come on that. But just if you're interested, feel free to shoot me an email and uh we'll get you in contact with the powers that be. But, anyways, enough of Acuma. Justin, thank you very much. Of course. All right, Julian. All right, so yeah. That's a game on. All right, so first things first. Like, so I I already we we talked about the topic, we teased the topic, but before we get to it, we always start with the same question, we always end with the same question. So we're we're not gonna go away from that. We're gonna stick to that that format. But I I think now more than ever, and I'm doing a long intro to the first question. Now more than ever, I think this uh question tees up our conversation quite nicely. And the last question really encompasses today's conversation as well. So, but we'll get to that. So, first question is you know, who is Julian Joseph? And and you can take that as personal or as professional as you want. You can lead us down whatever rabbit hole that you want to, but that is the first question. Who is Julia Joseph?
SPEAKER_01:Ah, well, first of all, thanks for having me, guys. I'm so happy to be here. You guys are absolutely my favorite group of people. Um, so thanks for uh for having me today. Where do I start? Who is Julian Joseph? I'm a lover of people. And I think uh, you know, I come from two parents who were educators, uh lifelong educators. Uh, they are also folks who believe in mission and strengthening communities and leaving people better than they found them. So, you know, my mom is an ordained minister, my father is also a deacon uh at their church, and I come from a family of people who uh lean into a higher power in order to be the best version of themselves. So um, who is Julian? She's somebody who is just trying to leave people better than she found them. That's who I am.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. Love, love, love, love, love that. That was awesome. That was awesome. All right, so let's go into the conversation. So the conversation is really gonna be centered around, you know, the human factor of or the human side of housing and homeownership. And I and I'm gonna expand on what I said earlier and why I love this so much. And if I if it's okay, I'll give you I'm gonna give you a little short story. And this is about you, but it's not about me, but I'm gonna give you a short story. Okay. Pandemic. Um painting the picture, the pandemic. It's all about refinances, it's all about you know closing more loans, right? And that that's really, you know, outside of uh of everything that happened in the pandemic, the mortgage business was rocking, right? Volume like we never saw. Now, I'm gonna add to this, I'm gonna sidestep. About 15, maybe 20 years ago, a mentor of mine told me our job is simple. We put families in homes. And and and that that that sunk with me. It hit me to my core. And I promised myself, okay, well, if I ever lose sight of that, we put families in homes, I'll either do one of two things, make a transition to something that ignites that passion again, or open my own brewery.
SPEAKER_01:I love it.
SPEAKER_03:I know, right? Totally two different things, but the same thing.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Pandemic. I lost that site. I lost the I I started focusing on the numbers. I started only thinking about we all right, last month we broke a record. Can we break another record? We broke another record, can we break another record? Can we close more loans? Um, and it wasn't even about the money, it was just the numbers, right? I didn't focus on the people, right? I didn't focus on, hey, we're helping someone. We're we're actually doing that. And so that's why I've made that transition to acumen. So that's why this conversation today hits a home for me, because all too often we can eat this is this this this is a message that we can easily lose sight of of families and homes and the higher purpose, the human side. But if we think back to the the financial crisis, you know, or the Great Recession, whatever you want to frame it up as. The human side was never even thought of, never even considered in the majority of the decisions that were being made. And so I'm a firm believer if if if you don't learn from your mistakes, you're going to repeat them. So let's have this conversation, Julian, the human side. So provide me your perspective. I mean, obviously this is something that you've dedicated your life to, you've seen great success to, you've been part of the administration, you know, the the past administration with FHA. Uh you're over at MBA with the Mortgage Makers Association. I mean, you uh have made a career and you you've originated, you've made a career of this helping people get into house. And so for you, you know walk me through the human side, walk me through what motivates you. And and and uh let's let's focus on those two things, like the human side and what motivates you, and we'll get to the other parts of the challenges and why it matters in a little bit later.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you teed it up perfectly, Peter, um, by mentioning the housing crisis. Uh that is where I established my North Star for this work. Um, prior to that, I had originated and, you know, was a practitioner. And uh, of course, you know, that impacted everybody once the bottom fell out. Uh, but I knew that I didn't want to stray too far from housing, and I knew that the market would rebound at some point. So that's when I went to the neighborhood housing services of Baltimore and decided to be a foreclosure cross a foreclosure counselor there, uh, which was ground zero for the housing crisis. And I mean, ultimately saw people at their very, very worst. I mean, I'm telling you, people who would send in pictures of their children saying, please don't let them take my house. There were people who were in situations where, you know, at the before the housing crisis happened, there were two incomes in the family, and then all of a sudden you're down to one. And then you have a, you know, a husband or a wife saying, Hey, honey, don't worry about it. I'll shoulder it, I'll figure it out myself, don't worry. And then it's a robbing Peter to pay Paul in order to figure out how to just keep things in the middle of the road, and then ultimately, you know, that catches up with you. And I know of people who actually gave up. And when I say gave up, they ultimately gave up to the point now that their kids only have one parent. So it was intense, you know what I mean? And to see people begging to keep the roof over their head, um put that fire in me, not knowing what the trajectory of my career would be. But I saw what happens when people make bad policy. And I promised myself if I were ever in a position to write policy or anything that I would put my hand to, uh, it would never leave people that way. And, you know, from 2010 on, that's been the fire in my belly. Um, and it not even knowing that that would be my training ground for what I was going to be tasked with doing when joining the administration to solve for FHA's issue with the pandemic. So my why started as a housing counselor helping people with foreclosure 2010 after the housing crisis in Baltimore.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I mean, I I don't know how to follow that up, but you know, so it so honestly that's that's what motivates you, right? So that that's that's the fuel behind your passion and and why you are on this mission to help and educate as many people as you possibly can. And I see it whenever you talk, I I see it when uh I feel it when we're in person that that you that you just want to help and you want to be part of it. So I guess the question is obviously you know, you you mentioned bad policy, but it's not just bad policy, it's you know, it can also be bad practice and greed that lends to it.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:I I guess for me, you know, the the question really is going to be how how do we I'm not gonna call it say right now we're in the middle of a housing pandemic. I because I don't want to call it that, right? But becoming a homeowner is becoming more difficult. Um, the cost of things you could easily argue is making making it more difficult for people to sustain homeownership. Right. How do we as an industry remember that in either A, well, maybe it's both, not either, but but help people achieve this this uh what we know as the American dream, what's supposed to be the American dream.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But on the flip side, that how can we as an industry with things uh with interest rates kind of plateauing? I mean, they're never gonna go back to three percent. We we I think we all can agree that, right? Yeah. We'll say it's plateauing at six and seven.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:But everything else is increasing. Insurance, uh, just the general cost of food. I mean, you gotta you gotta eat. Yeah. How do we as an industry remember the human side and help as many people as we possibly can?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's an empathy thing. And I think that we are, you know, in a time and in a season of survival. And with survival can come uh the spirit of apathy. And I think that, you know, people are dealing with a whole lot of stuff right now. I mean, there are a lot of factors and variables. The age of the first-time home buyer is somewhere around 38 right now. You know, it's it's there's a whole lot of stigma that lives there around homeownership. Um the first thing that I did when I set foot in FHA as the deputy assistant secretary of single-family housing, I had a big dry race board in my in my office. And the first thing that I wrote up there was every decision you make in this office will impact generations. I had that on my board. I looked at it every morning and I remembered the reason why I was doing what I was doing. And um, yes, to your point, it's not just bad policy, but it can be bad intentions. It can be the lack of intention that can that can end up having devastating uh consequences. Um, how do we solve for this? Um, it takes a village in order to do this. I think that this is now more than ever the time where there's silos in the industry that have to be torn down and destroyed. There are conversations, tough conversations that need to be had amongst different corners of the housing ecosystem. Uh, it's gonna take everybody right now. And I think that as we see uh some challenges in the spaces that we used to rely on in order to make sure that homeownership was on the table for a lot of people, we see those things being rolled back. So, what does that look like? Okay, well, we know that you know down payment assistance on the federal level is being challenged right now, right? We know that there are a lot of communities, black, brown, you know, white, you name it, underserved, that need money to get into a house. I mean, it is what it is. Oftentimes the math just doesn't math. Um, even for the millennials right now, I'm a Gen Xer. You know what I mean? So there are still people that this, these are the first generations that are gainfully employed, right? But just because that's the case doesn't mean that they've necessarily had enough time in order to save to make that initial investment. So a lot of times the conversations that we hear, this is where the empathy comes into play. Well, you know, just because you have a decent check doesn't mean that you can necessarily front 3.5% already because you've been in the job for six months or for 12 months. Especially if you're the first one to break that ceiling to start making good money in your family. So this is where that empathy conversation has to come into play. Practically, what that looks like is an 80% AMI can be tough on down payment assistance because there are people who are now making above that who still need down payment assistance at the 120 to 140 ban of AMI. I'm here in the DC area and I'm telling you, there are people who are making six figures right now, but they are living check to check. But if you put them on some type of, you know, if if you're looking at the actual grid of what they would qualify for for down payment assistance, they make too much. But right now I can tell you they're eating ramen noodles every night and bowls of cereal to try to make it, right? So I think that there needs to be um very candid conversation to um present the stories to the policymakers right now so they understand that while on paper it looks like people are doing well, but life life, it happens. You know what I mean? People get sick, people lose jobs, shutdowns happen, you know, there are issues that are unforeseen, pandemics happen. So I think that there needs to be a broader conversation that adds additional color so people can understand the spectrum of the lives that these people are living and make sure that they create policy that accounts for that.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, and right. I mean you listed so many amazing challenges, right? And and we could we can easily add to it, right? That and you're just you know really, you know, don't that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, we give if we even focus on you know construction and and how builders aren't building what's considered affordable housing. Granted, what does affordable housing look like, but they're not building those houses that aren't targeted for the upper middle class to those one percenters, right? They're they're not building something that's realistic for the average income earner to to to purchase in that geographic area. They're just not.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, and this you know, if there's two fun fundamental needs that every person has, it's it's it's it's the need, the need to eat and the need for shelter, right? Those are the those are the two fundamental things. And right now, you could easily argue that uh both of those things are are are in jeopardy because of everything happening, right?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:And you know, we saw it in the pan uh and I don't I I can't I keep saying you know the the Great Recession or the financial crisis, so please forgive me.
SPEAKER_02:No, you're good.
SPEAKER_03:But if you think back, that was the first time in in history that people opted to pay their car loans over their mortgage, right? For some strange reason they say shelter isn't that big of a deal, my Maserati's more important. At what point in time do we get to the place where the need to eat is more important than housing or or or vice versa, because neither of that's a healthy situation. Yeah, right. And and I I I I I still don't understand how we fix it because as an industry, there's just so much out of our control. I mean, yes, we can be a voice, yeah, but it's so much out of our control. So I I welcome your thoughts on this. How can we fix this? How can we change this? I think credit unions are uniquely positioned to help their communities better than anyone else. But there has to be a way. There we have to be able to do something, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, I mentioned earlier that down payment assistance is a is definitely a thing that has always been one of the major barriers to homeownership. Um, it's time to get creative. I remember the days when I used to originate and the rate sheets came out at noon and they were like, or you know, there's they slide them on days. They slide them under your door quietly because they don't know if you're on the phone or something like that. And you had to price, you know, from par. Like, you know, am I taking a hit on this deal?
SPEAKER_03:You know, am I and those things were not easy to read.
SPEAKER_01:They were not easy to hieroglyphic, seriously. Or, you know, there were no pricing engines, guys. We were the pricing engine, right?
SPEAKER_03:Grab your calculator.
SPEAKER_01:Grab your calculator, right? So, okay, you know, in a particular deal, do I need to do, you know, to price it over par in order to get a lender credit so I can give a kickback to help with the closing costs to make it easier for them? Like those were the types of things that you had to do. You have to say, okay, if somebody is getting$25,000 in down payment assistance, does it make more sense to be creative and structure it? That, hey, do I put half of this on principal reduction? Do I take a piece of this in order, you know, to pay points so that they have a lower, you know, interest rate and more affordable payment for the life of the loan? Like there are times that, you know, the industry has to start to tinker with things. It's a Rubik's Cube again. It's no longer they come in with$25,000 and you're like, okay, just dump it on the principal. That might not be the smartest way to do it. And you might need to play. This means you have to have conversations with consumer advocacy groups. This might mean that you need to reach out to the local employers to see if they're willing to do some type of employer-based down payment assistance. Do you start working with your, you know, local and city government and say, hey, look, can we do a matching program? Do you start working with your housing finance agencies to see if there's an opportunity to layer there? Like, you know, the days of Uber delivering your deal is over. So, you know, we have to figure out where we can put these crumbs together in order to make a loaf. And if we don't do that, we're gonna have a huge issue. And, you know, at Acima, I mentioned on one of the panels that another thing that we have to address is the fact that a lot of these um young folks who are entering the housing market right now or even thinking about dipping their toe in it, are the kids of people who lost their houses in 2008. So there's already some PTSD that's injected into them in their DNA that makes them say, I can't trust the bank, which is why this is a wonderful space for the credit unions because one thing they know is mom and dad have been with this credit union forever, and I trust them. There's a different level of credibility that you all have when engaging, particularly with younger people, because mom and dad, grandpa, grandma have already been there, they've got a relationship, they've never been burned, you know. So that so it's a little bit easier to have that conversation. So I would say to your listeners, to one, keep that in the back of your mind and know that you need to name the thing because that will go a long way. And I think the second thing is lean into the fact that there is a gift that you all have by being in the credit union network that comes with some instant credibility that you can build upon that a lot of other financial institutions don't have. So, my answer to your question, Peter, you got to pull the pencil out, sharpen it, get creative, figure out how to leverage funds to the best of the ability that you can, and use education as a tool to empower so people can feel like, you know what, there is absolutely no more juice left in this squeeze. And I know that, you know, this loan officer who just worked with me, this originator who just worked with me, did everything they could to get my mortgage down to the lowest penny possible. You do that, and maybe you know what, they're not gonna necessarily go to Starbucks four times a week, you know, in order to get their latte because I really want the house, right? Yeah, you know what I mean? Cut it down in two. Get an espresso instead, and you know, instead of going back three times a day. So those are the types of things I think need to need to start happening.
SPEAKER_03:I love that. I I I I really do. And one of the things that you were hinting at, but I I I'm gonna reframe I'm gonna frame it up in a different manner.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:You are basically saying the the days of being a salesperson, just being a salesperson are long gone. We have to go back and be fundamentally financial advisors and trusted partners for our our our borrowers, our members, our communities, whatever you want to frame it up as, because we have to go above and beyond to help them. And you know, even if to the point of saying, you know, let's restructure your debt to to make this more affordable for you and come back to me in a month, come back to me in two months, come back to me in three months, once all this stuff is kind of paid off. Even if so, even if we have to do that as a trusted financial advisor, that still helps them be better, right? We we can't just be salespeople, we can't just be a person pushing a widget. We have to be counsels, we have to be consultants, because that type of mindset where we're trying to problem solve, but also put them in a better financial well-being is really what's needed nowadays.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And it's it's smart business sense because you know, if you do that level of due diligence, right, you're making sure that they are having the most affordable mortgage possible. You're potentially talking to them about restructuring debt. You know, you're building that relationship with them that they feel like a trusted partner. So, one, you're gonna make sure that you're not doing a bad mortgage that's gonna end up exploding on your books. So you want to do that anyway, right? You nobody wants a distressed asset on the books. Okay, so this is just something that you should do anyway, because nobody wants to indemnify anything and nobody wants to have to put anything on the auction block as a distressed property. So you should want to put them in the best situation anyway. From the actual sales perspective, you know, even if it takes them a little bit, you know, a little bit of time in order to restructure the debt, clean themselves off, get the hair off of the deal before they come back. If you can't make a sale, make a friend. I mean, at the end of the day, if you do that, guess what? They might not be ready, but they're like, I had the best experience with my mortgage person, their neighbor or their boss or whoever might be ready to buy. Or they might be ready to refinance and they can say, you know what? Peter gave me some amazing information and he's he didn't, he's not even getting paid on my deal right now, but he took the time to talk to me. I trust him and I feel good. You should give him a call. Because if he's willing to work with me and he doesn't know if or when he's gonna get paid on my deal, I know that you who are in a financially sound position, he can get you in and out with no problem. And I trust him. Like it's so it makes good business sense to be uh relationship driven and not transactional anyway. Um, that's how you keep a pipeline going. That's how you have strong reputations in communities, but that's how you eat, and that's how you keep the lights on at the organization that you're or the shop that you're working in.
SPEAKER_03:Brand reputation is becoming more and more important. And part of that brand is the individuals within the organization. And if and if you could show a higher standard, people will come back.
SPEAKER_01:And it raises the standard for your neighbor. If we're complaining about the sentiment among the industry, you know, if you start to see that the yard next to you is cut and manicured, and you've got flowers in the bed, but you've got a car sitting on center blocks, broken light bulbs on the porch, you know, patches in the grass, there's going to be pressure on you to pull out the lawnmower, to pull the weeds out, to change the light bulb on your porch. So I think that rising tides float off boats. You do what you're supposed to do. There's a natural inclination for people to want to do better. And even if they don't want to do it themselves, themselves, the competition is going to push them in that way in order to do better. And I think that that is what will improve the quality of what we're kind of seeing in the way that people are being treated in the industry. And again, you know, how different players in the space engage. I think it just needs to be a greater level of empathy and human care and contact that needs to happen. And somebody's got to be the spark plug for that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I love that. All right. So we we need to start transitioning to the second segment. But before we do, two questions, two final questions. Okay. And then we'll pivot. All right. So if you are, I want you to pretend as though you know this this podcast is an open update for everyone to listen to. I want I want you to address this specifically to the credit union listeners.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:And this is going to be your like your final thoughts.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Why does it why does this matter so deeply and why should they make that pivot to really focusing on helping as many families as they possibly can?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's huge. I think um the economy relies on it. If it does not happen from the mortgage perspective, we understand what happens when things are good in the mortgage industry. Everything excels, everything flourishes. If we have a hole in the actual financial system for mortgages, the bottom falls out. There is no way that any other industry in the economy can survive if mortgages fail. And I go back to the point that credit unions are location and community-based. They independently represent the communities that they serve. That is the model that it's built on. So there is an opportunity to cookie-cut your approach, your business model to the folks that you serve. There is no greater autonomy in the financial industry than those of credit unions. There is a huge latitude that's there in order to support the customers that the credit unions serve. So what I say is this I think that that is the, you know, the canary in the coal mine, is that if for some reason there's a weakness or deficiency in the credit union space, that is usually going to be a tale of what the rest of the economy and the other financial institutions will experience. So I think that it's really important that right now, this is the time to ground yourselves in the communities that you serve. Open up, whether it's on a Saturday, whether it's on a Friday, if you want to have some type of farmer's market, whatever it is, open up your doors for family day. Do something to invite people into your building. Let them talk to you about the things that they're experiencing because it's very easy for us to anecdotally create things without having real conversations, to push down what you think people should have instead of asking them for what they need. And I think that this is a perfect opportunity right now for credit unions to do that. And I absolutely believe that the sovereignty of the housing market, no pressure here, can literally rest at the heels of what credit unions do and how engaged uh you all are uh with the communities that you serve.
SPEAKER_03:Great answer. Great answer. All right. Real final question before we pivot. And it ties back to everything we've already talked about, but I still have to ask this question.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_03:What motivates you? What keeps you going? You're like everyone else. You take one foot out of bed in the morning and then you get your day started and you just keep pushing forward. What keeps you pushing forward?
SPEAKER_01:You know what? Um, I'm a big crybaby, Peter. Anybody who knows me well knows that I cry at the drop of a hat, right? Um, I can get in front of a room of people, and it could be 2,000 people that I'm talking to, and I will start to talk about my time housing count in housing counseling. I can talk about the stories that I heard during the pandemic. I can talk about the first time that somebody said to me, you know, thank you so much for working on that student loan debt policy. I was able to buy a house when I've been told for five years that I couldn't, and now I have a roof for my new baby and my wife. Like, and then I cry when I tell that story. Um what keeps me going is the fact that people now know that there is someone who has been in the seats that I've been in that will cry for them. They know that there's someone who has shaped policy, who went to their community in either good, bad, hopefully for good, that um that we had a conversation and that they left an impression on me that made me go back to 451 Seventh Street, Southwest in Washington, D.C. and said, you know what, we need to fix this problem. And that was something that was a priority to former Secretary Fudge. She said, the work is gonna get done. She said, but the way that we will do it is with kindness, because when you treat people with kindness, people will want to help you. It's easy to create a coalition when you're moving in the right spirit of um stewardship and making sure that people are not hurting unnecessarily. And if there is something that you can do, you do it and you don't defer it to somebody else or defer it to tomorrow. So you ask me what makes me get up is because now um I've created an expectation of the people who know me to get up. And uh there have been some difficult days uh and disappointing days that I've seen uh in the in the last few months. But the same reason why I raised my hand and was sworn in to serve in June of 21 is the same reason why I continue to get up today.
SPEAKER_03:Best answer, yeah. Hands down. Best answer, yeah. Best answer, yeah. I love that was fantastic. Good job. All right, awesome. I don't even know where to go. I don't even know where to go from here now.
SPEAKER_01:Um all the feels that's right.
SPEAKER_03:All the and you you you started a little teary either for a second.
SPEAKER_01:I felt it. I felt it. You did, okay.
SPEAKER_03:It did.
SPEAKER_01:So all right, bring it down.
SPEAKER_03:Although this is all this is audio, I can contest.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:That that that Julian was starting to you know tear up a little bit with that passion. I love it. All right, so Julian, we need to start pivoting. All right, so as a reminder, this is where we sometimes do dad jokes, sometimes we play Jeopardy, and okay. I hinted at it, we're playing Jeopardy today, so bear with me while I bring in my Jeopardy board. Now, Julian, one of my favorite holidays is Halloween. And so we are gonna play Halloween Jeopardy. So please allow me to describe the board that's on the screen before I kind of walk into it. So on my screen, of course, this is all audio, so no one can see this besides Julian and Justin. But on my screen is a standard Jeopardy board ranging from points from 100 to 500. There are five categories. The categories are Halloween movies, Halloween, Halloween treats, Halloween monsters, and another Halloween. Um, for the record, I did not make this. Um, I always just put that disclaimer on there. I don't know what the answers are, I don't know anything about this. Um, admittedly, I was running really late, so I kind of just googled Halloween. And so who who knows? Who knows what this is gonna be? All right, so okay. I I've kind of painted the picture. Julian, for the sake of this, you're team one, Justin's team two. Um, you do not have to answer who is, what is, etc., etc., etc.
SPEAKER_02:You just blurt it out.
SPEAKER_03:Also, when you pick the question, it's your question to answer. There's no stealing now. Unless Justin, unless you get it wrong, I will give Justin an opportunity to steal, or vice versa. But if you get that wrong, I deduct points. So all right, Julian, you are the honored guests. You get to go first.
SPEAKER_01:All right, let's go ahead. I'm going the Halloween treats for 300. Let's break it up in the middle here.
SPEAKER_03:Halloween treats 300. What's the popular chocolate Halloween candy that means to laugh?
unknown:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01:What's the popular chocolate Halloween candy that means to laugh? What in the world?
SPEAKER_03:To laugh.
SPEAKER_01:Peter, you picked these questions?
SPEAKER_03:I did not pick these questions.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:That means to laugh.
SPEAKER_01:I I'm I'm stumped, and I don't know if it's because I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:By the way, if you say you don't know, I don't know. Nothing happens.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I don't know. Justin, did you create these questions?
SPEAKER_04:Uh absolutely not. No, Peter, Peter, I think, secretly does this in his abundant free time and likes to think of ways to how uh Justin's never gonna get triggered uh Jeopardy correct. So no, I did not make this. What is it, Justin? Why do I have to guess?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Well, the correct answer is Snickers of their dad joke. Oh, Justin.
SPEAKER_04:See, and I was thinking like Rolo, like I was thinking Rolo's too. Yeah, I was just like, you know, some something out like Rolo, like laughing.
SPEAKER_01:But I wasn't gonna guess that because I knew that was I have to calibrate my brain for dad jokes now.
SPEAKER_03:I wasn't it it's not it's not gonna be all dad jokes. Not gonna be all dad jokes. At least I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01:That's a good one, though.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, Justin, you're up. Halloween movies for 100. Halloween movies for 100. Casper is a friendly what? Ghost.
SPEAKER_01:What? I get the dad joke and you get Casper. Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_03:The correct answer is Ghost.
SPEAKER_04:On the board positively. All right, Julian.
SPEAKER_01:All right, I'm not gonna shoot ahead of my skis again. So let's do Halloween for 100, the second column, not the fifth. So how about we go?
SPEAKER_03:Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01:There we go.
SPEAKER_03:Who are you gonna call?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know. Ghostbusters. Who are you gonna call? We're aging ourselves here.
SPEAKER_03:The correct answer is Ghostbusters. You are gonna call Ghostbusters.
SPEAKER_02:Good job, oh Justin.
SPEAKER_04:All right, let's let's we'll go negative here. So we'll go Halloween monsters for 200. Halloween monsters 200.
SPEAKER_03:The ancient creature sewn together from corpse parts and and sparked to life is both tragic and terrifying.
SPEAKER_02:Frankenstein. The correct answer is Frankenstein.
SPEAKER_03:Good job, Justin.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
SPEAKER_03:All right, Julian.
SPEAKER_01:So my goal is to at least meet or beat where Justin is. So if he does 200, I'm gonna do a 200er. Okay, let's do uh Halloween treats for 200.
SPEAKER_03:Halloween treats 200. What rainbow candy sells over three million pounds every Halloween?
SPEAKER_01:Would that be MM's? No.
SPEAKER_03:All right, Justin, you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, really?
SPEAKER_03:Skittles.
SPEAKER_01:Wait a minute. Listen, hold on. I love, I know it tastes the rainbow, but like I never associate Skittles with Halloween ever.
SPEAKER_04:Well, neither do I. It's just the rainbow.
SPEAKER_01:I mean the correct answer is. I thought that, and I thought it was Skittles, but I just never associate Julian. I mean, listen, you know what?
SPEAKER_03:Look at Justin winning.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I'm coming back. All right, I'm coming back. I'm stretching now. This is and I'm sorry, guys. I didn't have my coffee today.
SPEAKER_04:Man, I have enough points to go for go for a big one here. All right, let's go. Yeah, do that. Halloween monsters for 500.
SPEAKER_03:Halloween monsters for 500. A silent figure in a white mask stalks his victims uh relentlessly in a long-running horror film franchise.
SPEAKER_04:Yep, haunted me all through my childhood. That's Jason.
unknown:Gosh!
SPEAKER_04:Oh wait, that could also be Michael. No, no, it's Jason. I don't care. Both of those people haunted me through my childhood. So it's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, I would say scream.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, that's a good one, too. The correct answer. You know what? This is an unfair question. Michael Myers. We just identified three people with white masks.
SPEAKER_01:See what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04:Well, sorry. See, this is how I told you, he makes these questions.
SPEAKER_01:It could be Joan Crawford from Mommy Dear it. She wore three white masks.
SPEAKER_04:And Julian, and Julian didn't answer that question. She didn't say I'm stealing. She said something didn't. That wasn't a real answer. All right, fine. Don't be mean to her like that. Come on. I won't. I got you, Miss Julian. Don't worry. All right.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much, Jeff. Julie. Well, there's a will, there's a J. I'm sticking it up over here. All right. Let's do Halloween treats for 500, even though I've been unsuccessful. I gotta catch it.
SPEAKER_03:Halloween treats, 500. Often found in trick-or-treat bags. These colorful sugar-coated chocolate candies melt in your mouth, not your hand.
SPEAKER_01:I'm going to press repeat and say MMs, Peter.
SPEAKER_03:Alright, the correct answer is MMs.
SPEAKER_01:Raleigh. Raleigh.
SPEAKER_04:Alright, Justin. Halloween movies or 500.
SPEAKER_03:Halloween movies? 500. What is the name of the town where the nightmare before Christmas takes place?
SPEAKER_02:That's a really good question.
SPEAKER_04:We're gonna go with Halloween. I mean, that's the only thing I can think of. They keep screaming, this is Halloween.
SPEAKER_03:This is that's all that's I mean. That's gotta be Halloween. That was very Julian, do you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01:Um, is it Christmas Town?
SPEAKER_03:Halloween town.
SPEAKER_01:But then why did you ask me to steal? You're totally right.
SPEAKER_03:You were not right. You just said Halloween.
SPEAKER_01:That is right. I was thinking that it was Christmas Town and because I said Halloween.
SPEAKER_03:You just said Halloween. You missed the important part. See this, see this, see this? What's this word? What's this word? T-O-W-N.
SPEAKER_04:It's identified in the name of the question that it's a town. Nope, Halloween town.
SPEAKER_01:Oh the designation. Here go those zoning problems. It could have been a township or a city, Justin.
SPEAKER_03:Seriously. Could have been Halloween, it could have been Halloweenville. That would have been a totally different answer. Nope. All right. All right. All right. Last round. Last round. Julian.
SPEAKER_04:All right. All right. I thought Julian, I thought she got it wrong that time. No, she didn't.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. We're now in the octagon. I'm gonna do Halloween for 500, far right column.
SPEAKER_03:Far right column, Halloween 500. What does the word Halloween come from?
SPEAKER_04:Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_01:Hollowed? The word to be reverent? I mean, how how deep are we supposed to go here?
SPEAKER_03:I mean Justin, you want to see him? No.
SPEAKER_01:Are you trying to get points here?
SPEAKER_03:No. I know I mean, I know it's all Hollows Eve. No, that's the night before Halloween, I thought. I don't know. Correct answer is known as All Hollows Eve.
SPEAKER_01:I really listen, this is why I stick to mortgages and not holidays.
SPEAKER_03:I hate when I'm right.
SPEAKER_01:I'm sorry, guys. I'm just gonna fuck it up here.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Um that was Julian's question, right? Yeah. All right. Justin? Is this our last question? This is the very last question. Oh man. And and just I apologize, I haven't done this. We currently have scores of Julian with negative 100 and Justin with negative 500.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. How is this even pop? Okay, I'm not gonna.
SPEAKER_04:Oh no, this is a normal score for me, actually. It's no, his is more like negative 2000. Yeah, this is also true. So I'm actually doing pretty good today. I got one right. I'm gonna go with Halloween, the first column, the second column for 500. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that one. The fact that there's two Halloween. Where is the biggest Halloween parade? Is Halloween an American holiday? No. There we go. That helps me a lot. I wasn't sure about it. See now the whole world's our oyster. Let's see. Germany. You're saying where in Germany? No, it just says yeah, Germany. You're saying Germany. Germany is a location.
SPEAKER_03:I know it's a location, but where in Germany?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know that you uh I mean it see you're just gonna mark me wrong if I'm not super specific and it wants to find just say German.
SPEAKER_03:Germany's fine. Julian, do you want to steal?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, are we uh do we have is it the world or are we talking in the United States? Like what are we talking about?
SPEAKER_03:I'm I'm guessing the world. Well, you're winning right now. You could just say I I don't want to answer, and you could still win.
SPEAKER_01:I could, but I would lose right, because I would lose my push because he's already got it wrong. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark.
SPEAKER_04:Because I didn't get it wrong.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you didn't?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know yet. He doesn't know. He doesn't know yet.
SPEAKER_01:Oh gosh. So see, there's the pressure I have to answer because if he gets it right, then he's like gonna beat me, right? He'll be a zero.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, even even if you get them both good wrong and you still win.
SPEAKER_01:All right. I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna throw it out there, and I'm gonna stick with the United States, and I'm gonna say New York City, and I'm gonna go there.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. All right, I'm I'm gonna chime in on this too. I'm gonna say Salem Mass.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Correct answer is. Oh, that's a good one. New York!
SPEAKER_01:And can I just say the only reason I know this is because I was on IG and somebody was posting about it.
SPEAKER_03:All right. At the end of how many rounds we we played, the final score is Julian with positive 400 and Justin negative 1,000. Now that's a score I like to see for Justin.
SPEAKER_01:Even a broke clock is right twice a day.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. Well, Julian, that was awesome. Congratulations for being this episode's winner of Halloween on point Jeopardy.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:And by the way, Julian, really do appreciate everything that you do for our industry, our association. Really enjoyed the conversation. And again, thank you so much for being on today.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate it. Thanks, everybody, and thanks to your listeners. And you guys are the absolute best. Thank you for all of the wonderful work that you do. Um, as a former uh uh, you know, administration official, I can't underscore or overstate too much uh how valuable this partnership has been. So thank you so much to Peter and Team Acuma. You guys are the best.
SPEAKER_03:Of course. And Justin, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time at the Acuma on Point Podcast. If not already, be sure to subscribe and give us a five star rating. For more great episodes and information, be sure to visit us online at Acuma.org. And to get the latest updates, head over to our LinkedIn page.
