ACUMA ONpoint
ACUMA ONpoint
Beyond Rate Wars: Meeting Members Where They Are
Tony Humphrey, VP of Mortgage Lending at One Nevada Credit Union, takes us deep into the strategic imperative facing credit unions today. As financial institutions nationwide enter budget planning season, Tony reveals why leveraging member data through predictive analytics represents the untapped competitive advantage credit unions desperately need.
While credit unions constitute 43% of mortgage originators, they capture only 18% of originations – a gap Tony attributes to an overreliance on rate-based marketing and failure to harness existing member data. "We know more about these members than some of their families," Tony explains, highlighting the gold mine of information credit unions already possess but rarely use strategically.
The conversation explores why credit unions must transition from generic, one-size-fits-all communication to personalized outreach aligned with predictable life events. Tony shares how meeting members at crucial financial junctures – college graduation, marriage, family formation – positions credit unions as trusted advisors rather than mere product providers. This approach builds the brand loyalty essential for weathering market fluctuations and rate environments.
Most provocatively, Tony confronts an uncomfortable truth: despite their mission-driven nature, credit unions lag behind non-bank lenders in serving underserved communities. By combining predictive analytics with financial education and targeted products, credit unions can fulfill their founding purpose while growing market share in communities traditionally overlooked by mainstream financial institutions.
For credit union leaders seeking strategies beyond rate competition, this conversation offers a roadmap for leveraging your greatest asset – member relationships and data – to thrive in tomorrow's mortgage marketplace.
Subscribe to ACUMA's ONpoint podcast for more insights on building sustainable mortgage operations in today's challenging environment.
Sponsored by Optimal Blue
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Acuma, its board of directors, its management staff or its members. The podcast discussion presented is conversational in nature and for general information only.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to Actors On Point podcast, a series focused on sharing the stories of people who are making a positive impact in the credit union mortgage industry. I'm your host, peter Benjamin. Before we get to our episode, just a quick word from our sponsor.
Speaker 4:This episode is being brought to you by Optimal Blue. Optimal Blue effectively bridges primary and secondary mortgage markets to deliver the industry's only end-to-end capital markets platform. The company helps credit unions of all sizes deliver premier experiences to members pursuing the dream of homeownership Through innovative technology, a network of interconnectivity, rich data, insights and expertise gathered over more than 20 years. Optimal Blue is an experienced partner that, in any market, allows credit unions to optimize their advantage, from pricing accuracy to margin protection and every step in between. To learn more, visit OptimalBluecom.
Speaker 3:Today I am joined by Tony Humphrey, vice President of Mortgage Lending at One Nevada Credit Union. Tony, how are you doing today?
Speaker 5:I'm excellent. Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 3:My pleasure Looking forward to this conversation. Me today. Oh, my pleasure Looking forward to this conversation. Actually, I couldn't be more thrilled to have this conversation, because I love these types of talks where we focus on strategy, and these become more and more timely as the year goes on and we are in this weird lull of what do we do next, and we're all kind of sort of in that weird. I don't know about you, tony, but I'm in this weird budgetary season, right, right. And so now, it's now more than ever, we need to focus on strategy. So the timing for today's conversation is perfect, so excited for it. Thank you very much for your's conversation is perfect, so excited for it. Thank you very much for your willingness to join me in on this conversation. But before we get to it, as always, got to bring Justin in. Justin the Hawk. What is the latest and greatest happening over at Acuma? And, by the way, how are you doing today? I'm good, peter. How are you Living?
Speaker 2:the dream. Thank you very much. I love it. Well, we are I mean days away from the Make your Mark annual conference. I think the team flies out what like two days, something like that. Two days and we're going to be in Denver, colorado, for our Make your Mark annual conference. So if you're not going to be there, we're going to miss you. I've said it before, peter and I have kind of jested about it over the past few months, but you don't want to miss the tricks he has up his sleeves. I'm telling you we have some surprises in store.
Speaker 2:It is going to be awesome. I mean, one of my favorite things, I think, now is that we're going to have a small pony, which I've learned are small horses, but it's okay, it's still a thing. We could have a pony. If you haven't registered, I'd say there's still time. Krista might be frantically regretting me saying that, but it's okay, there's probably still time. If you're bringing over you and your colleagues in your credit union or KISO, then groups of three or more can get a $200 discount. So head over to the Acumen website for more information. If you can't make it to annual, as I said, we're going to miss you, but there's still plenty of other opportunities for you to take advantage of.
Speaker 3:We have our webinar series, our network meetings and our favorite podcast. Okay, awesome job. Thank you very much. Thank you All right, tony. All right. So before we get to the meat and potatoes, let's focus on you know the standard question I ask on every single episode of the On Point podcast, first one up. You know it really focuses on you and actually first in questions always focus on you. You know you as the person, because I think that's so important. You know we are. You know fathers, brothers, neighbors, mothers, daughters you name it right. So that's why we do this right. We want to never forget who we are as a person outside of our professional lives, and so the first question is always designed to kind of tell people who you are outside of this right. You can tie it in professionally all you want, but the first question really is you know who is Tony Humphrey? You know. So for those that don't know, you please explain, please share who is Tony.
Speaker 5:Yeah, thanks, Peter. I would say that I'm a girl dad. I have two daughters, two adult daughters that I love and care for deeply. They are my passion and motivation, I would say, and including that outside of work I like to golf, I like to exercise, hit the gym, spend time with friends, love to travel to smooth jazz concerts across the country and just relax outside of work, ensure that I am supportive of my friends, family and also the underserved out there that many times don't have a voice. And, as a whole, I would say that's who I am.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love that. So a couple of things. You know piggybacking a few things. So, girl dad, ok, I love that, it's not. There's nothing better, and oftentimes worse, than being a girl dad. You know it's a blessing and a curse, right than being a girl dad. You know it's a blessing and a curse, right, being a girl dad. Um, but, but two, you know, correct me if I'm wrong. You're, you're in, like you're in las vegas, right? The las vegas area? Right, yes, that's correct. You have great golf out there, right you? Year round, year round year. What's your favorite course right now?
Speaker 5:I would have to say, you know, the courses in Summerlin are, you know, really good. So I would have to say, you know, probably one of any of the courses in Summerlin are usually very good, very well manicured and a good challenge If you're not a great golfer, and if you are a great golfer, enough challenge to push you to be better.
Speaker 3:Last year when we were in Vegas and yet at the Bellagio, we had an opportunity to play Valley High when we were in Vegas and at the Bellagio we had an opportunity to play Valley.
Speaker 3:High. At first I was like this is going to be a gimmicky course. I actually really enjoyed it. It was a fun course and, surprisingly, yes, it was a little gimmicky. But I think my favorite part is when the marsall came around I was like it's hot out here, boys, here's a popsicle. I was like he handed all of us popsicles. I was like this, this is awesome. But I mean, maybe that's just standard, but anyways, all right. So smooth jazz. So like when you say you travel around like you're going like jazz fest everywhere I am.
Speaker 5:I try to get to uh a few different states to uh do a jazz festival etc. And uh have something coming up in uh napa here at the end of the month. So uh looking forward to uh awesome, good music, good wine that is awesome, that's.
Speaker 3:I've always wanted to do something like that, but I just, I don't know, it's I one. I'm not good with crowds, as weird as that sounds, because that's pretty much what I do for a living. But that is. That's awesome, that I'm I. I love that because one, I think jazz music, one, one either with a good bourbon or good wine, but then when you factor in a cigar with it, agreed, it's fantastic. And you have great cigar bars there too.
Speaker 5:We have a lot of great cigar bars, a lot of great restaurants as well.
Speaker 3:Your restaurant scene is top notch, top, top notch anyways. We could talk about that all day long, sorry. So let's let's go to the heart and soul of today's conversation. So, like I said, it's it's all built around strategy. You know, here we are. You know mid-September, you know I said it earlier I'm really knee deep in budget planning, writing my business plan for next year and really the years to come, and I imagine you are, and there's a lot of credit unions out there doing it, a lot of QSOs out there doing it.
Speaker 3:Pretty much everyone in our industry is doing pretty much the same, as I think, planning for next year and the years after. And so you know, right now our industry is interesting and I think and I kind of said interesting in a weird way interesting, but it's not always going to be this way. Could it change next year, maybe, could it change the year after, maybe? But here we are, we're both credit union people. The biggest question I have for you is, in your perspective someone who's been in the industry not just the credit union space, but the mortgage industry for quite some time time from your perspective, when we think about credit unions and we think about the mortgage industry as a whole and as we think about strategy and what we need to do. You know we face a lot of challenges. We really do, you know, and we can go to. If we want to talk with the challenges that we face first, maybe that's a good place to start.
Speaker 3:But, from your perspective, what do we need to do to kind of come out of these interesting times on top? I mean, we're getting better. I think you and I can agree we're getting better. I think you and I can agree we're getting better, yes, but, but we're. But we're not where we need to be Like. So what do we need to do as this little corner of of the mortgage industry, to get where we need to be? I mean, I think, what we are, we make up what? 43% of the originators, but we're only originating what? 18%, right, something like that, right? So what do we need to do to actually make up more of the origination? So that's the question what do we need to do to be better?
Speaker 5:I think there's a couple of things that we need to do, peter, as far as credit unions are concerned, you know, historically most credit unions don't leverage data and predictive analytics, and I think that's something that we need to expand upon identifying member segments and personalize that communication.
Speaker 5:You know, I think most credit unions kind of do a one set, set it and forget it. Everyone gets the same message, irregardless of member status, how they're using the credit union, member status, how they're using the credit union. And I think, identifying particular segments that could increase your mortgage standing, your mortgage percentage in your specific markets as well, I think the other thing that we need to do is predict member needs in advance. So most of us have large segments of members, we know who they are, they're longtime members and proactively predicting what comes next for them. I think that's really crucial in terms of gaining market share in a volatile market with rates, et cetera. And then also making sure that what we're sending these members in terms of information, that we're reviewing it to make sure that what we send is a great message for them, it's being received well, and obtaining some of that feedback to ensure that, if we're not on the right path, then we adjust, modify and adapt and move forward.
Speaker 3:I love everything you said. You know I I you know, particularly love you know the idea of predictive modeling. You know, because you know, over the past, you know year you I've been on like this, this mission to get credit unions to adopt. You know the idea of benchmarking and and really looking at your data, because I fully believe that, yes, technology is going to be a great tool for us to have. We need to have technology in order to generally compete, but you need to understand your data to really thrive in that next market right.
Speaker 3:But, I have not been talking about predictive modeling and you really took it to the next level because you're right. As credit unions, we know, we 100% know, you know, hey, our members on average, buy cars at the age of 24 after they get their their first paycheck. Right, something like that? Right, right, you know, on average, most people are buying houses at the age of 35. Right, we know these things.
Speaker 5:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly so why couldn't we start, why couldn't we internally create some sort of predictive model that's that allowed for us to have that target marketing, that target strategy, everywhere within our credit unions?
Speaker 5:Exactly, and I think one of the things when you look at things from a mortgage perspective, we have more information on our members than probably any other parts of the credit union. We know more about these members than some of their families.
Speaker 5:So, for example, most of your families don't even know your social security number right, they don't know how much money you make, those sorts of things. And some know you've been on your job a long time but they may not know exactly. And so, to your point, as these life events occur everything from graduating from college, having children, being married, all of these life events which are pretty classic and normal in most of our lives we can predict some of those things, and I think it's not always about the rate you know. The other side of that is about the education and advisory. So, as you move into these life steps, not only are you just offering a product or a service, but you're helping advise how they use those products, how they get there, and I think that also builds brand loyalty as well.
Speaker 3:No, I mean financial education is huge, huge for that. I think the brand loyalty with that financial education it's it's going to build that trust long term and they're going to pass it down. They're going to come and we've said it, our industry, our side of the industry, has said it long. You know, for a long time, and it's sales 101, people are going to go to the subject matter experts, right, and if you continue to come off as a subject matter expert and if you time it right, you know, during their life stages, you know they graduate high school and you started marketing. You know savings accounts and you started. Or they graduate college and you start marketing. You know you know we'll say CDs and 401ks or whatever you want. However, you want to frame it up right, right, or IRAs. You know these are things and you start educating them on. This is what it is. This is how you properly save for the next step in your life. People are going to come back to you because of the education. They're going to remember you Well.
Speaker 3:You know one Nevada educated me on this. I learned about a mortgage. I learned about home equity. I learned about a home renovation. You name it because of Tony and his group. Right, I love everything you just said. You know we have the data. We need to start leveraging it to come out of that next, that next phase. All right, so that's really the solution, right, of how we come out leveraging that data. So what's the challenge stopping us from doing that? Why aren't we doing that? If we have this data, why aren't we doing it? I mean, this is in my mind. This seems like the obvious thing we should be doing. We should be the number one lender out there, right? Why aren't we?
Speaker 5:I think there's a couple of things. One, I think there's habit and our comfort of having low rates and just advertising your low rate. You know, if you have it they will come sort of a mentality difficult market in terms of affordability, higher interest rates. I believe you know it's comfort level of what we've been doing will always work. And I think a part of that challenge is looking at market trends. You know we've been in a pretty tough environment for three years or so, but then are we looking at the trends? Even you know, as you speak, peter, about what happens next year. Let's say things get better. Are we looking at the trends to see what does it look? Look like for 2026? What are some of those probable outcomes? Whether it's refinance, whether it's predicting lower interest rates, whatever may be the case, what does your specific market look like?
Speaker 5:I think that's been a challenge for most credit unions because we relate that to specific costs. So, depending upon the size of your credit union, some people may look at that as a barrier to entry in terms of that. But I think as we progress with technology, ai, you can use some of those things that have normally been hurdles for us. And you know, we know that all budgets aren't the same across our credit union partners, and so I think, as much as you're able to dip into some of the things where you don't have comfort level, and trusting that this new information will give you additional leverage. And again to your point, peter, not only in the mortgage space, but how can you help grow your credit union? So I think those are, you know, I think, habit. You know it's probably the largest challenge that most of us see in the credit union space as it relates to that growth.
Speaker 3:Now, did this habit form as a result of, you know, 2020, 2021, or was this habit longstanding before that? Because I mean again, sales 101, or was this habit longstanding before that? Because I mean again, sales 101. I hate referring to sales 101. You never sell rate, right, Right. But those years we sold rate. It was the easiest thing to do, because we could, because everyone I mean borrowers were falling from the trees, right, right, or members were falling from the trees. I mean, that's how easy, how easy it was to refinance. You know 2018, 2019, 17, and what it actually means to truly, I don't want to say we'll say market or go get a mortgage.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think it's been a combination. I think you know the low interest rate environment, you know, kind of perpetuated more of that belief of it's going to always be there in terms of easy, plenty of access. And even if you go back before the super low rate environment and somewhere probably before and after the recovery of the great economic housing collapse, I think when you look at those two periods in today's period it was extremely difficult. Credit unions, all lenders, kind of had to reinvent themselves. But as we look forward and backward, I think you know one of the things we have to do as credit unions is to continue to evolve. And just like any other business out there, lack of evolution could be the downfall of some of our credit unions. And as we look at this, you know we want to continue to not only provide value and service for all of our members but we have to find more ways to meet them where they're at as well.
Speaker 3:No, I mean, I couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more. I like that last part. We have to find ways to meet them where they're at. I like that last part we have to find ways to meet them where they're at Because I mean, that is the only way we're going to figure out how or really not figure out, but how we're going to solve the home affordability crisis and how we're going to better serve the underserved Right. I agree. Better serve the underserved right. I agree, because you know we as an industry, when you look at credit as a whole, we've done a poor job of serving our entire communities, all of our community, right, right, and so rate's not enough, right Products not enough. It has to be a combination of both. But then it also has to be the strategy to invest it in going after them. So we have to focus on that. We have to focus on the data that allows us to go into that, and data is going to be key to that success as well. Otherwise, we're no better off than the others. Yes, but non-bank lenders are better at serving the underserved than we are, and that's the cold hard truth. So, tony, we have to start transitioning are better at serving the underserved than we are, and that's the cold hard truth. So, tony, we have to start transitioning, but before we do, I always end this, our podcast, with the same exact question.
Speaker 3:I always do, like I said, the first question is designed to be a personal question and the last question is designed to be the same exact thing. So you're just like everyone else, one foot out of bed. You know, just like everyone else, you're motivated by something. What keeps you going? What keeps you going? What keeps you driven? What inspires you every single day not to stop? What is that? One thing.
Speaker 5:I think for me is knowing that you have, both personal and professionally, that I have individuals that count on me to show up every day in a professional way, in a helpful way, and they look to me for guidance and help where I'm able to provide solutions as well and to help those that are in need. And I think for me that's how I was raised as a child to help those who are in need if you can and you're able, and for me I think that's critically important across the board because it shows compassion for others. We never know what someone else may be going through. They may look fine mind, but knowing that you have the ability to be stable, to be a rock for someone that may have needs, for me I think that's critically important and just a part of who I am as a person.
Speaker 3:Love that. I love that. Well, thank you very much. All right, tony, here's our opportunity to transition to the second segment of our podcast, and in our second segment of our podcast, this is where we sometimes do Jeopardy, sometimes do dad jokes. You are the fortunate one who gets to play Jeopardy Lucky you. Jeopardy Lucky you.
Speaker 3:So bear with me while I bring in my Jeopardy board into the screen, and I'm going to go ahead and share my screen and I'm going to go ahead and describe it to everyone, like I always do. I'm sharing my screen right now. Alright, so in front of you, tony, you should see a standard Jeopardy board. Now we're going to play housing pop culture, so for our listeners, we have a standard Jeopardy board in front of us. Five categories ranging anywhere from one to 500. The five categories are mortgage in the movies. The five categories are mortgage in the movies home, sweet home, famous neighbors, realtor riddles, build it or break it Again. One to 500.
Speaker 3:For the sake of this, tony, you are team one, justin is team two. Now, tony, you do not have to say what is, who is, et cetera. If you know the answer, just say it. Tony, you'll go first, justin will go second. You just say the number or the score and it's yours to answer. There's no opportunity for Justin just to say the answer out loud. Okay, now, if you say, hey, I don't know it, justin can steal it. Okay, okay, but if he is wrong, I also deduct points, and I do deduct points. Okay, okay, tony, whenever you are ready.
Speaker 5:Let's go with build it or break it for 300.
Speaker 3:Build it or break it for 300. Build it or break it for 300, all right. So the empire state building famously has one of these for sightseers on the 86th floor what is the observation bridge? The correct answer is what is an observation deck. But you know what, tony, I'm going to accept it, I'm going to take it, I'm going to accept it. Okay, good job, tony, good job, all right, justin.
Speaker 2:Yep, all right, let's go. I'm going just to death points right now. You should. I would have got that wrong. I was thinking binoculars, which would have got that wrong. I was thinking binoculars, which would have also been right, but you would not have given that to me, I wouldn't have Famous neighbors for 300.
Speaker 3:Famous neighbors 300. These two Brooklyn roommates live upstairs from Larry and Balky in Perfect Strangers yep here, we go again, all right dharma and greg dharma and greg oh yeah, the correct answer is wait. What if tony knows it? See you tony, did you know it?
Speaker 2:I did not okay.
Speaker 3:Who are mary ann and jennifer? Mary Ann and Jennifer.
Speaker 2:Who are they?
Speaker 5:All right, tony, let's go with Realtor Riddles for 300.
Speaker 3:Realtor Riddles 300.
Speaker 5:This type of sale, and I did bunny ears because the question has bunny ears or quotations.
Speaker 3:This type of sale happens when the seller owes more than the home is worth. Short sale. The correct answer is what is a short sale? Good job, Tony. Thanks, sir, Okay.
Speaker 2:Justin, not doing that category. Alright, we're gonna go home.
Speaker 3:Sweet home for 400 home, sweet home for 400 in friends. Monica's New York City apartment had a rent control price that was completely unrealistic. This borough has. This borough was its location.
Speaker 2:Manhattan.
Speaker 3:The correct answer is what is Manhattan? Good job, Justin.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I got one.
Speaker 3:All right, Tony.
Speaker 5:Realtor riddles for 500.
Speaker 3:Realtor riddles 500. This real estate term means the last payment is much larger than the previous one.
Speaker 5:What is?
Speaker 2:balloon payment.
Speaker 3:Justin, do you want to steal?
Speaker 2:No, you picked a category that has nothing to do.
Speaker 3:The correct answer is what is a balloon payment? Good job, Tony. All right, Justin. I lost.
Speaker 2:We're going to go with Mortgage in the Movies for 500.
Speaker 3:Mortgage in the Movies for 500. This 1986 Tom Hanks comedy features fixer upper that falls apart in hilarious ways. It's a great movie.
Speaker 2:Big, what I don't know, but he was in that movie.
Speaker 3:It was. Tony was still what I don't know, but he was in that movie. It was what.
Speaker 5:Tony will steal what is the money pit?
Speaker 3:The correct answer is this 1986. What the? It is the money pit.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, I got it right. It's an error, I get it right.
Speaker 3:You do not get it right. It is the correct answer is All right. So if the listeners the question ended up repeating in the answer but it is money pits, All right, Tony. Good job, Tony. Oh, Justin, I got to take it on the zero.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not down to zero or negative 400.
Speaker 3:Exactly, all right, tony, let's do last round.
Speaker 5:Let's go with uh mortgage in the movies for 400 mortgage in the movies 400 and home alone.
Speaker 3:The mcallister family's giant house is located in this us state what is illinois? The correct answer is what is illinois?
Speaker 2:good job all right, you get a movie about. I get a question about the 80s, when I wasn't born yet you haven't seen the money pit. No, that's why I said big the money pit is awesome. I'm gonna have to go watch that movie, all right it is a good movie.
Speaker 3:Go Justin.
Speaker 2:I'm just going for broke here, build it or break it for 500, don't do that one. Yep, you already know. I don't know the answer, so it's fine.
Speaker 3:This historic London theater, rebuilt in 1997, was once home to shakespeare's plays oh see, I feel like I should know this you should hold on.
Speaker 2:Let's think it's the london amplif. Nope, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker 3:It's not that amphitheater in lond, nope it's not that I'm going to give you one more shot.
Speaker 2:Coliseum? Nope, that's in Rome, wrong country.
Speaker 3:Completely wrong country.
Speaker 2:It's, I don't know, tony.
Speaker 3:Come on, tony, take a guess here. Alright, it's the globe oh, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I should have known that you're right what is the globe theater? Is that ever known as an amphitheater? No, do you live in London? What's that?
Speaker 3:alright, at the end of how many rounds? Whatever rounds we played, the final score is Tony with 2000. Justin with negative 900. Tony, congratulations, you are the winner of this episode's Justin with negative 900. Tony, congratulations, you are the winner of this episode's round of Jeopardy. Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Thank you, sir. Congratulations, tony, you beat me. Thanks, justin, it's fine.
Speaker 3:Hey, tony, thank you very much for joining us. Really enjoyed the conversation and your perspective into what we can do to kind of come out of these interesting times ahead. Really do appreciate it.
Speaker 5:Thank you for having me, peter, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Of course, Justin. Thank you, Of course. It was my pleasure. Of course. And to close out, thank you again to Optimal Blue for sponsoring today's episode and to all of you. We know your time is valuable. Thank you for tuning in to the latest episode of Acuma's On Point podcast.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoyed it. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time at the Acuma On Point podcast, if not already, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating. For more great episodes and information, be sure to visit us online at acumaorg and to get the latest updates, head over to our LinkedIn page.
